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	<title>Comments on: A heated debate!</title>
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	<link>http://www.notdelia.co.uk/a-heated-debate/</link>
	<description>For people who care about their food</description>
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		<title>By: Buddyboy</title>
		<link>http://www.notdelia.co.uk/a-heated-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-1023</link>
		<dc:creator>Buddyboy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Oct 2009 18:49:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.notdelia.co.uk/?p=6642#comment-1023</guid>
		<description>I find the results of the poll to date really interesting.  Almost 60% have a stated preference for pre-warmed plates, yet fully 28% grumble when they are not but don&#039;t voice concern.  With a distinct majority wanting, even expecting warmed plates, you&#039;d think restaurateurs would be ahead of this particular curve, would you not?  The fact that the vast majority are not speaks poorly of their business acumen and their professionalism.

The warm plates at the salad buffet, ND, reflects a cavalier attitude to customer service.  Sadly it is by no means a rare occurrence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find the results of the poll to date really interesting.  Almost 60% have a stated preference for pre-warmed plates, yet fully 28% grumble when they are not but don&#8217;t voice concern.  With a distinct majority wanting, even expecting warmed plates, you&#8217;d think restaurateurs would be ahead of this particular curve, would you not?  The fact that the vast majority are not speaks poorly of their business acumen and their professionalism.</p>
<p>The warm plates at the salad buffet, ND, reflects a cavalier attitude to customer service.  Sadly it is by no means a rare occurrence.</p>
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		<title>By: Not Delia</title>
		<link>http://www.notdelia.co.uk/a-heated-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-1016</link>
		<dc:creator>Not Delia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Oct 2009 08:43:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.notdelia.co.uk/?p=6642#comment-1016</guid>
		<description>Well, we were out at a buffet last night and we did yet warm plates.  But wait for it...  They were stacked beside the salad and sushi bars!  Obviously they&#039;d just come out of the dishwasher and hadn&#039;t had time to cool down before they were put out for service.

Needless to say, the plates for the hot food were at a cool, ambient temperature.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, we were out at a buffet last night and we did yet warm plates.  But wait for it&#8230;  They were stacked beside the salad and sushi bars!  Obviously they&#8217;d just come out of the dishwasher and hadn&#8217;t had time to cool down before they were put out for service.</p>
<p>Needless to say, the plates for the hot food were at a cool, ambient temperature.</p>
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		<title>By: caroline</title>
		<link>http://www.notdelia.co.uk/a-heated-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-875</link>
		<dc:creator>caroline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 16:50:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.notdelia.co.uk/?p=6642#comment-875</guid>
		<description>I guess we are spoilt here in the County. I cannot comment on the pleaces at which I do not eat but in those that I do we always have warm plates and are also warned that that they are warm when they are bought to the table. There is no exception made for the children - their plates are also warm.

One of top establishments here is also one of Canada&#039;s top cookery schools and they are very strict on teaching the whole experience of eating is what the patron is after not just the food. The food can be top notch but if the whole team is not on side then the food may well have been pig swill. Their buffet on a Sunday have the old fashioned sprung loaded heated plate and bowls and their &quot;British Style Pub&quot; also has food served to the table on warm plates. Mind their glasses for Beer and white wine are also pre chilled to a nice temp.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess we are spoilt here in the County. I cannot comment on the pleaces at which I do not eat but in those that I do we always have warm plates and are also warned that that they are warm when they are bought to the table. There is no exception made for the children &#8211; their plates are also warm.</p>
<p>One of top establishments here is also one of Canada&#8217;s top cookery schools and they are very strict on teaching the whole experience of eating is what the patron is after not just the food. The food can be top notch but if the whole team is not on side then the food may well have been pig swill. Their buffet on a Sunday have the old fashioned sprung loaded heated plate and bowls and their &#8220;British Style Pub&#8221; also has food served to the table on warm plates. Mind their glasses for Beer and white wine are also pre chilled to a nice temp.</p>
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		<title>By: Buddyboy</title>
		<link>http://www.notdelia.co.uk/a-heated-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-869</link>
		<dc:creator>Buddyboy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 15:45:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.notdelia.co.uk/?p=6642#comment-869</guid>
		<description>I think you have hit the nail on the head, Graeme.  It&#039;s just &quot;too much bother&quot;.  Thanks to Mike Saxon for his knowledgeable overview, all of which makes perfect sense.  It contains a fair number of self evidently justifiable &quot;shoulds&quot;, which still begs the question &quot;So why do so many, the majority of, restaurants who are otherwise proud of what they do and care about their standards serve hot food on cold plates?  Fine dining always seems to hit the mark with warmed plates; the next level down do not.  Why the disconnect?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you have hit the nail on the head, Graeme.  It&#8217;s just &#8220;too much bother&#8221;.  Thanks to Mike Saxon for his knowledgeable overview, all of which makes perfect sense.  It contains a fair number of self evidently justifiable &#8220;shoulds&#8221;, which still begs the question &#8220;So why do so many, the majority of, restaurants who are otherwise proud of what they do and care about their standards serve hot food on cold plates?  Fine dining always seems to hit the mark with warmed plates; the next level down do not.  Why the disconnect?</p>
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		<title>By: Graeme</title>
		<link>http://www.notdelia.co.uk/a-heated-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-868</link>
		<dc:creator>Graeme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 15:19:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.notdelia.co.uk/?p=6642#comment-868</guid>
		<description>Thermal death time (the amount of heat and time it takes to kill a bacteria) can be a little complicated and depends a lot on what bacteria are present. Wikipedia has a short article on this subject here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_death_time  It takes a long time to kill off some bacteria and if they are incompletely removed-who hasn&#039;t had a slightly dirty plate in a restaurant-the warming of the plate may encourage cellular growth and produce a biological risk to the patron. 
Leaving the thermodynamics of cell death behind, I prefer a warm plate for warm food and my wife used to do this all the time but recently stopped. I asked her why and she replied she couldn&#039;t be bothered to do it anymore, but when pressed she admitted that she preferred it as well, so hopefully warm plates will be back in my kitchen soon.
I think that&#039;s where the crux of the matter lies, it&#039;s not too difficult to do, it&#039;s just a hassle, yet one more thing the restaurant owner has to do and in this age of fast food and miserable patrons, perhaps it&#039;s just too much bother.
Graeme.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thermal death time (the amount of heat and time it takes to kill a bacteria) can be a little complicated and depends a lot on what bacteria are present. Wikipedia has a short article on this subject here: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_death_time" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_death_time</a>  It takes a long time to kill off some bacteria and if they are incompletely removed-who hasn&#8217;t had a slightly dirty plate in a restaurant-the warming of the plate may encourage cellular growth and produce a biological risk to the patron.<br />
Leaving the thermodynamics of cell death behind, I prefer a warm plate for warm food and my wife used to do this all the time but recently stopped. I asked her why and she replied she couldn&#8217;t be bothered to do it anymore, but when pressed she admitted that she preferred it as well, so hopefully warm plates will be back in my kitchen soon.<br />
I think that&#8217;s where the crux of the matter lies, it&#8217;s not too difficult to do, it&#8217;s just a hassle, yet one more thing the restaurant owner has to do and in this age of fast food and miserable patrons, perhaps it&#8217;s just too much bother.<br />
Graeme.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Saxon</title>
		<link>http://www.notdelia.co.uk/a-heated-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-864</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Saxon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 10:38:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.notdelia.co.uk/?p=6642#comment-864</guid>
		<description>Hi Kay,

I think that everyone would or should agree that hot food should be placed on hot plates.

Not sure what the logic would be of putting it on cold plates, cost saving surely can&#039;t be an issue when it comes to hygiene.

If the plates are only luke warm, this is not good either as bacteria like the temperature to be warm.

Hot plates are much better and safer.

Mike.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Kay,</p>
<p>I think that everyone would or should agree that hot food should be placed on hot plates.</p>
<p>Not sure what the logic would be of putting it on cold plates, cost saving surely can&#8217;t be an issue when it comes to hygiene.</p>
<p>If the plates are only luke warm, this is not good either as bacteria like the temperature to be warm.</p>
<p>Hot plates are much better and safer.</p>
<p>Mike.</p>
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		<title>By: Not Delia</title>
		<link>http://www.notdelia.co.uk/a-heated-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-863</link>
		<dc:creator>Not Delia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 10:20:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.notdelia.co.uk/?p=6642#comment-863</guid>
		<description>Sorry, Mike I was replying to your first comment before I&#039;d seen your second one.

I&#039;ve never even heard of a &quot;lowerator&quot; - must keep my eyes peeled better in future.

You&#039;re right, no one wants to have their hands burned, just as people don&#039;t want hot food served on ice cold plates.

The hygiene aspect that we&#039;re on about isn&#039;t whether the plates are clean in the first place, I feel sure they are clean and germ-free.  It&#039;s about putting hot food onto cold plates - which no one likes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, Mike I was replying to your first comment before I&#8217;d seen your second one.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve never even heard of a &#8220;lowerator&#8221; &#8211; must keep my eyes peeled better in future.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re right, no one wants to have their hands burned, just as people don&#8217;t want hot food served on ice cold plates.</p>
<p>The hygiene aspect that we&#8217;re on about isn&#8217;t whether the plates are clean in the first place, I feel sure they are clean and germ-free.  It&#8217;s about putting hot food onto cold plates &#8211; which no one likes.</p>
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		<title>By: Not Delia</title>
		<link>http://www.notdelia.co.uk/a-heated-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-861</link>
		<dc:creator>Not Delia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 09:57:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.notdelia.co.uk/?p=6642#comment-861</guid>
		<description>Thanks so much for your comment, Michael,

(For anyone who doesn&#039;t know Mike, he&#039;s the top man at one of Asia&#039;s most prestigious hotels - the Eastern and Oriental in Penang.  Check out his blog!  It&#039;s listed in our blogroll.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks so much for your comment, Michael,</p>
<p>(For anyone who doesn&#8217;t know Mike, he&#8217;s the top man at one of Asia&#8217;s most prestigious hotels &#8211; the Eastern and Oriental in Penang.  Check out his blog!  It&#8217;s listed in our blogroll.)</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Saxon</title>
		<link>http://www.notdelia.co.uk/a-heated-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-860</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Saxon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 09:45:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.notdelia.co.uk/?p=6642#comment-860</guid>
		<description>Dear All,

I failed to touch on the subject of buffets.

For the cold buffet counters, the room temperature plates can be placed on top of the counter in between the dishes or at the beginning of the buffet line. There is however an unfortunate trend today whereby the plates are placed on shelves below the cold buffet counter and the guests are encouraged to bend down to pick one of them up. 

This is ok if the plates are well enough off the ground to avoid dirt or dust coming up from the floor or from people&#039;s footwear.

Hot plates should be kept at the beginning of the hot buffet counter in a plugged-in heater or &quot;lowerator&quot;.

This plate &quot;container&quot; or &quot;holder&quot; has a heater element at the bottom under the metal plates that the hot plates sit on. The temperature should be set to ensure that the plates are hot enough to be held by the customers&#039; hands but obviously not hot enough to burn their fingers.

The buffet counter should be designed so as to ensure that there is an electrical power point at the beginning of the hot buffet, so that you can plug in the lowerator and set the temperature to the desired degree.

The sign that the plates are too hot is when you see the guests picking up the plates and holding them on the outside rim of the plate as they continuously move them around their hands to alleviate the heat.

As the plates are taken from the lowerator, the plates underneath will rise to the top as there is also a large spring underneath that will send the plates upwards.

All the plates should be hygienically sterilized as they should have gone through the extremely hot temperature dishwashing machine.

Hope this helps.

Mike</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear All,</p>
<p>I failed to touch on the subject of buffets.</p>
<p>For the cold buffet counters, the room temperature plates can be placed on top of the counter in between the dishes or at the beginning of the buffet line. There is however an unfortunate trend today whereby the plates are placed on shelves below the cold buffet counter and the guests are encouraged to bend down to pick one of them up. </p>
<p>This is ok if the plates are well enough off the ground to avoid dirt or dust coming up from the floor or from people&#8217;s footwear.</p>
<p>Hot plates should be kept at the beginning of the hot buffet counter in a plugged-in heater or &#8220;lowerator&#8221;.</p>
<p>This plate &#8220;container&#8221; or &#8220;holder&#8221; has a heater element at the bottom under the metal plates that the hot plates sit on. The temperature should be set to ensure that the plates are hot enough to be held by the customers&#8217; hands but obviously not hot enough to burn their fingers.</p>
<p>The buffet counter should be designed so as to ensure that there is an electrical power point at the beginning of the hot buffet, so that you can plug in the lowerator and set the temperature to the desired degree.</p>
<p>The sign that the plates are too hot is when you see the guests picking up the plates and holding them on the outside rim of the plate as they continuously move them around their hands to alleviate the heat.</p>
<p>As the plates are taken from the lowerator, the plates underneath will rise to the top as there is also a large spring underneath that will send the plates upwards.</p>
<p>All the plates should be hygienically sterilized as they should have gone through the extremely hot temperature dishwashing machine.</p>
<p>Hope this helps.</p>
<p>Mike</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Saxon</title>
		<link>http://www.notdelia.co.uk/a-heated-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-859</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Saxon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 09:23:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.notdelia.co.uk/?p=6642#comment-859</guid>
		<description>Dear All,

If I may, I would like to offer some thoughts as far as International Hoteliers are concerned with regards to hot/warm plates for hot food.

Firstly, when all plates are put through the dishwasher in the kitchen, if the dishwasher is set to the correct temperature level, the water should be so hot that it not only kills any germs available, but should ensure that they steam dry by themselves due to the very hot water used.

If this is done correctly there should be no issue as far as hygiene is concerned, no outlet should be washing the dishes in a sink or by hand, as the water is simply not hot enough to kill the germs. Whilst the plates may appear to be clean, they simply will not be clean enough for food for consumption.

If the health department ever comes to our establishments they always check the temperature of the water in our dishwashing machines and keep this item at the top of their check and priority lists.

All plates/dishes/bowls that will be used as a receptacle for serving hot food for consumption should be hot. The plates should be hot enough to be carried by service staff using a clean dry towel or cloth, but not enough to burn your hands. The service staff should always carry their clean dry cloth so they will not be burned, but if the plate is too hot, the customers may get a shock if they touch a scalding hot plate, very hot plates may also make the food so hot that they may burn their mouth.

It is also important to ensure that the plates and food are hot, as most restaurants are air-conditioned which will ensure that the food cools very quickly, especially if the plates are only luke warm. There is no point for the chefs to toil to ensure that the food is hot and then placing the food on a plate ill tempered for the purpose.

Lastly, hot food is very good for a healthy tummy environment and helps to balance the bacteria in the tummy as well. Anything cold, iced or even chilled is not always a good thing for a healthy balanced tummy, hot drinks and food are far better to ensure you have a happy, balanced and regular digestive system.

Hi Kay, I hope that this helps a little, it is lovely to see that you are encouraging such educational, interesting and very important debates.

Great Job!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear All,</p>
<p>If I may, I would like to offer some thoughts as far as International Hoteliers are concerned with regards to hot/warm plates for hot food.</p>
<p>Firstly, when all plates are put through the dishwasher in the kitchen, if the dishwasher is set to the correct temperature level, the water should be so hot that it not only kills any germs available, but should ensure that they steam dry by themselves due to the very hot water used.</p>
<p>If this is done correctly there should be no issue as far as hygiene is concerned, no outlet should be washing the dishes in a sink or by hand, as the water is simply not hot enough to kill the germs. Whilst the plates may appear to be clean, they simply will not be clean enough for food for consumption.</p>
<p>If the health department ever comes to our establishments they always check the temperature of the water in our dishwashing machines and keep this item at the top of their check and priority lists.</p>
<p>All plates/dishes/bowls that will be used as a receptacle for serving hot food for consumption should be hot. The plates should be hot enough to be carried by service staff using a clean dry towel or cloth, but not enough to burn your hands. The service staff should always carry their clean dry cloth so they will not be burned, but if the plate is too hot, the customers may get a shock if they touch a scalding hot plate, very hot plates may also make the food so hot that they may burn their mouth.</p>
<p>It is also important to ensure that the plates and food are hot, as most restaurants are air-conditioned which will ensure that the food cools very quickly, especially if the plates are only luke warm. There is no point for the chefs to toil to ensure that the food is hot and then placing the food on a plate ill tempered for the purpose.</p>
<p>Lastly, hot food is very good for a healthy tummy environment and helps to balance the bacteria in the tummy as well. Anything cold, iced or even chilled is not always a good thing for a healthy balanced tummy, hot drinks and food are far better to ensure you have a happy, balanced and regular digestive system.</p>
<p>Hi Kay, I hope that this helps a little, it is lovely to see that you are encouraging such educational, interesting and very important debates.</p>
<p>Great Job!!</p>
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